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Going back to the sort of the trt discussion and the testosterone discussion these days there’s a lot of discussion around oh you know if your testosterone’s too high then you know it converts estrogen and that creates these effects like you know gynecomastia growth of the male breast tissue reduction in libido all these things most of those effects are not actually
Caused by estrogen this is a common misconception it’s those effects are created by excessive levels of what’s up guys derek from playtornays.com today we are going to be revisiting the joe rogan andrew huberman podcast episode because there is a lot more juicy they get into that we have not yet uh dived balls deep into things about gynecomastia people getting
Their goddamn titties cut open uh androgens performance enhancement in sport deca burritos like that we’re gonna dig into it all and uh we’re gonna go piece by piece there’s gonna be a lot of clips probably you know at least uh another three or four potentially there’s a lot of good content in here if you haven’t watched the podcast i recommend you watch it it’s
You know a very insightful episode with a lot of random cool tidbits of information hubermann obviously a you know incredible educator and uh content creator in his own right and rogan asking all the right questions to make it you know a very very enthralling podcast so we’re gonna be getting into dino in this one and the impact of uh prolactin versus estrogen
During development the testes give off testosterone no surprise there but the actual masculinization of traits within the brain and there are certain traits that anatomically you can see by the way i have this on 1.2 times speed right now masculinization of the brain is not by testosterone it’s by testosterone that’s aromatized converted into estrogen so estrogen
Is actually what masculinizes the male brain what absolutely wow and so going back to the sort of the trt discussion and the testosterone discussion these days there’s a lot of discussion around oh you know if your testosterone’s too high then you know it converts estrogen and that creates these effects like you know gynecomastia growth of the male breast tissue
Uh reduction in libido all these things most of those effects are not actually caused by estrogen this is a common misconception it’s those effects are created by excessive levels of prolactin and the more common medical practice now is to not include estrogen blockers when people are doing testosterone replacement no nasties all none of those things because they
Actually have very bad effects on the vasculature of the brain is that chlorophene as well i don’t i’m not familiar with clomiphene if it’s an estrogen antagonist or an aromatase inhibitor then you want estrogen you don’t want a ton of it but for longevity of the brain and health of the brain and for repair of the brain you need ample levels of estrogen so okay
So a lot to uh unpack there um basically the main thing he says that’s of note is that high levels of prolactin are the cause of gyno not high levels of estrogen and the use of aromatase inhibitors like anastrozole has been you know basically done away with by people who are you know leading the charge in the medical community in the endocrinology field i guess
Of uh you know safer practices for you know hormone replacement therapy and not um unnecessarily inhibiting an enzyme that is otherwise responsible for causing neural protection cardio protection a bunch of different functions in the body critical for your health however the interesting thing about that is well a lot of the things he said are you know spot on as
Far as the estrogen you know neural protection the vasculature blah blah blah all that kind of the only thing that kind of i you know was kind of surprised at is the fact that he’s so like gung-ho on this high prolactin being the cause of like so many things like the dad bod caused by prolactin gynecomastia caused by prolactin all this caused by prolactin it
Is not necessarily just prolactin in my opinion like there’s definitely a role where um testosterone seems to increase prolactin kind of in a dose-dependent manner to some extent i do think this is downstream to the aromatization process which consequently is stimulatory of prolactin secretion however i don’t necessarily think that prolactin is the root cause
Of the gynecomastia development when you know clinically we can actually see exactly what causes gyno from a hormonal aspect like this is a graphical representation of the stimulatory action on breast tissue that occurs to initiate and progress the breast development um and it involves a coordinated effort of all of these different things now obviously you know
You could have more than more of one or the other and it’s going to potentially push you over the border because at the end of the day all you really have to inhibit estrogen-induced rna transcription at the receptor site or any kind of antagonistic activity is like androgen recep not androgen receptors actual free-floating androgens in your body and in addition
To that you have all of these different stimulatory inputs that can contribute to the issue so you have estrogen estradiol binding to estrogen receptors and causing agonism in the area estrogen receptor ductal growth we have growth hormone contributing to the circulating igf-1 and this igf-1 can be very problematic and we see this in individuals you know using
Growth hormone mk677 concurrently with their um other hormonal interventions now again though there’s you know roles with prolactin with that too an interplay with that and the effect it has on estrogen production a lot of this stuff does have significant overlap so kind of like owning in on one stimulatory input and blaming the whole thing on it is kind of
Short-sighted in my opinion given the fact that also progestogenic signaling at the progesterone receptor also has stimulatory input and then prolactin of course that the prolactin receptor also can be stimulatory and all these things cumulatively can layer on top of each other some can be more problematic than others but at the end of the day it’s not like estrogen
Is not contributing in any capacity whatsoever rather it is a simultaneous coordination of all of these things or you know a majority of certain ones in certain circumstances like obviously if you’re using something that’s you know a very potent substrate for aromatase or using a ton of exogenous gh or whatever the case is you could have one vector be pushed a
Little bit more aggressively than the others and it can push you over the border and you know start to develop that breast tissue but to disregard all of these other things and just say it’s the prolactin like that’s why you have a dad bod that’s why i have gyno you know it’s definitely not the case in my opinion and when you actually look at case studies you can
See how this actually breaks down so here we have gynecomastia in 786 adult men clinical and biochemical findings this was done at the andrological department in copenhagen denmark during a four-year period under the diagnosis of gynecomastia so basically they tried to like root out the actual well i shouldn’t have said root out they’re trying to extrapolate out
The root of the issue um that caused all of these gyno cases essentially and when you actually break it down like some of them like a lot of them are basically um can’t define what they are exactly because there’s no definitive way to say for certain you can own in on you know some bio biomarker and see a significant aberration be like oh that’s definitely it the
Ones that they’re like pretty sure are the ones that are labeled accordingly but then there’s a lot of unspecified undisclosed you know ambiguous ones but anyways like the table summarizes basically the main underlying causes of gyno so we had misuse of anabolic steroids or cannabis was reported in 79 men 76 with the anabolics three with cannabis um as the basic
Cause for their development of gynecomastia now again obviously you know the cannabis one a little bit controversial but that you know that’s what they diagnosed it as anyways in the remaining 511 men testicular problems were the main cause for gynecomastia in 91 men 17.8 some degree of testosterone um deficiency was detected in 79 men 15.4 which again goes back
To the whole stimulatory input versus the inhibition component of androgens and the role they play kind of antagonizing each other’s action in some capacity on breast tissue development um like the main guys who are going to be prone to gynae are guys who are like hypogonadal as i don’t know why i said as they’re already hypocattle six men were diagnosed with
Clint f felter syndrome 1.2 and six with testicular tumors one point two percent concomitant or recent use of medication known to be associated with the development of gynecomastia for various comorbidities was the second most frequent cause 16.6 85 of them whereas other reasons highlighted were all less frequent among the 511 men the reason remained unexplained
In 289 which is 57 of them the palpable gynecomastia in these men were additionally confirmed by ultrasound examination and 65 30 percent of these so basically this is breaking down again what they determined to be the root of the issue and we can see specifically hypoprolactinemia one percent so this is defined as you know supraphysiological prolactin levels
Is this the root of the issue for every single guy you know obviously not obviously there’s a bunch of different issues and you know you could probably argue that some of the downstream is going to lead to an imbalance where prolactin can then cause stimulatory input that is disproportionately favorable for breast tissue development relative to the androgen
Input like in primary testosterone deficiency mixed testosterone deficiency secondary deficiency some of these syndromes like that however there is definitely a stimulatory component of these other hormonal systems that are being overlooked in this context and again this isn’t an argument to not use or use aromatase inhibitors because i don’t think they’re good
Either but to disregard estrogen as like that’s not even really relevant to say you know the aromatase inhibitor thing like i think we both clearly are on the same page with um and i think all you guys already know that the aromatase inhibitor discussion is in a hormone replacement therapy context is essentially um you know probably doing more harm than good
For the majority of individuals but anyways you know the prolactin thing like i said not the root of the issue in my opinion it is a contributing factor but certainly is not the whole cause at the end of the day so prolactin is what’s causing that growth of breast tissue because i went down a rabbit hole the other day and i watched a bunch of youtube videos of
Guys having their their um what they call tits have them removed yeah and gynecomastia is it’s right it’s it’s a mass it’s it looks like it’s fluid and it’s vascularized i spent some time with cadavers i teach in her anatomy and i years ago we used to do i would do the labs also now i don’t do the lab part um you occasionally see this i have a colleague he’s a
Physician he always says you know the male breast tissue it’s one of those things it’s there it’s just not very interesting um it just happens to be there and it’s very small but if there’s a big increase in prolactin then you will see that people who take uh opioids like with the opioid crisis or heroin users the reason why they get breast development is because
Dopamine inhibits prolactin so dopamine and testosterone are close cousins and this will this will immediately be familiar to you or anyone else that has had that experience of really being in the zone and hard driving and you’re getting wins and we know that testosterone goes up as you’re succeeding we know this i mean i didn’t do the blood serum analysis but you
Can bet that the poirier mcgregor fight if you did blood draws before i don’t know whose testosterone would be higher doesn’t really matter but afterward you’re going to see a significant decrease in in the loser and you’re going to see a significant increase in the winner you see this in day traders you see this in school features this day yeah because testosterone
Feeds back on the brain and releases more dopamine because the brain is trying to learn what was the behavior that led to the wind is this a similar thing that happens with women when women succeed yeah so women have some testosterone uh they mostly make it from their adrenal glands these little glands that ride atop the kidneys in the lower back and at the core of
The adrenals they can release these androgens occasionally um and just as a kind of a side note occasionally a child is born with a female child is born with a very enlarged clitoris there’s um oftentimes there you’ll find like a a tumor on the adrenals in the pregnant mother it will release more dopamine and testosterone will go up a little bit and testosterone
Is responsible a little increase in testosterone each month during the menstrual cycle is responsible for an increase in libido about 10 to 14 days before ovulation that kicks in right around ovulation for the purpose of trying to fertilize the egg okay so anyway i think that’s basically it for the gynecomastia component like at the end of the day why do serms
Why are they so effective at attenuating gynecomastia development they have selective receptor modulation of the estrogen receptor specifically they don’t actually lower estrogen levels so if there was some sort of like even if you were to implicate estrogen in the effect on prolactin which subsequent to that is causing gyno and you you know make an argument for
The fact that well the prolactin is still the issue and it’s just the estrogen making the prolactin be the issue like when you use things like novadex reloxifen these are literally selectively binding to estrogen receptors and modulating them accordingly based on the pharmacology of the drug they are leaving your serum estrogen levels intact there is no like
You you they could potentially even increase due to the inhibition of negative feedback with the case of like novadex for example this kind of thing is going to lead to increases in serum estrogen levels which again if there was some stimulatory action on prolactin would even exacerbate the prolactin even worse which would then make the gynecomastia worse so a
Serm why are serums working to attenuate gyno development is because they’re inhibiting estrogen-induced action at the receptor site like the downstream consequence of this estrogen being increased if serums were totally ineffective and it only had to do prolactin the estrogen increased from using a serum and binding up those receptors subsequently freeing more
Estrogen into circulation preventing negative feedback with the hypothalamus ii subsequently increasing testosterone production and downstream and rheumatizing into even more estrogen would have even more stimulating consequence on prolactin which would then cause even more gyno development you would not have an attenuation of gyno through serum deployment rather
You would have an exacerbation of it making the gyno even worse so no it’s not just prolactin it’s all these different things layered on top of one another so hopefully you guys enjoyed that hopefully you learned something hope you guys enjoyed it more clips to come this is a really really um enthralling podcast like i said and i’m looking forward to uh digging
Into some more of it with you guys so like subscribe if you want to uh you know stay tuned um obviously uh again check out huberman he’s a great resource for a lot of things from uh neuroscience perspective and you know a bunch of other you know very interesting tidbits that you will never tease out of literature yourself because like frankly who has the time to
Dig through all the you always want to have as many high quality resources of information as you can in order to cumulatively build up your education in as broad spectrum of a way as possible it’s impossible for everyone to be an expert in everything so when you learn from the best you know it helps you you know become more well-rounded and it’s always good
To be open to uh um learning from others so obviously and he’s entertaining too so check out his and uh thank you guys for watching like subscribe check out my blog more pleasepoints.com follow me on my instagram i’m our platform it’s facebook snapchat not bit shoot twitter tick tock apple podcast if you want to support the channel you check out anything
I’m associated with in the video description below my trt clinic i’ll telemedicine from the comfort your own home get high quality oversight from doctors who actually know how to interpret biomarkers and you know stuff like this how to attenuate gynecomastia even looking at novel preparations of medications with different pharmacokinetic profiles like topical
Relaxation novadex stuff that is very promising in the industry but no one is talking about because no one even understands how the it works and that’s not a you know talking necessarily this is very new like uncharted waters and stuff that uh we’re at the cutting edge of so if you want high quality oversight from people who actually know you know are at the
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Transcribed from video
The TRUE Cause Of Gyno – Not Estrogen!? By More Plates More Dates
