A physician’s analysis of Tamoxifen as used in bodybuilding as an anti-estrogen and its side effects and properties. Tamoxifen is mainly used to combat and prevent breast cancer, but is also used off-label in men and women. Bodybuilders use it for its anti-estrogen effects, including to prevent gynecomastia and as part of post cycle therapy. However, this drug can have serious side effects, especially in men with hypercoagulable states or histories (DVTs, pulmonary embolism, or stroke.) In men, this drug should only be used carefully and for a very limited amount of time, and remember it’s not blocking the conversion of androgens to estrogen, just the action of estrogen in some sites. If you are considering taking tamoxifen as an anti-estrogen or have taken it, please watch this video.
Anteye estrogens in bodybuilding part 3 tamoxifen this is another classic anti estrogen that’s been used by the bodybuilding community and men that are using anabolic androgenic steroids for many years actually since the 1990s the utility of this drug is more focused than the other drugs this is specifically for on cycle or pct gynecomastia and specifically as a
Regimen with other drugs for post psychotherapy the drugs that are obviously used with this are classic estrogenic anabolic androgenic steroids like esters of testosterone and drugs like dyna ball and anna draw but it’s used with many other steroids as men use steroids together in stacks so it’s also interesting that unlike aromatase inhibitors anti-aging clinics
Really don’t use this drug so much although i do see it used from time to time and i think over time we see more polypharmacy coming out of these clinics and i do see men getting put on this drug inappropriately the history of tamoxifen first synthesized by i ci pharmaceuticals in 1962 was cleared by the fda in the mid-60s initially for female infertility now
This is interesting because this is a sarm like clomiphene that now today is much stronger for that utility after many years in study by 1977 the fda cleared this drug for what it’s used for today medically which is hormone receptor positive breast cancer in 1998 the fda gave it a second clearance for breast cancer prevention and high risk individuals that would be
A woman or a man that has breast cancer unilaterally and they want to protect against having breast cancer in the second breast also used classically in more commonly women that have breast cancer of risks familiar risks and classically genetic risks with the classic gene brca1 and 2 the mechanism of action of tamoxifen it’s a classic and the oldest non-steroidal
Anti estrogen drugs and a class called selective estrogen receptor modulators this specific drug falls under the triphenyl eveline family and as the storm’s do it has both ostrich anak agonistic and atherogenic antagonistic blocking effects depending on what receptor and what part of the body system were looking at so for an example properties of anti estrogenic
You would classically see the blocking effects the estrogen site of breast tissue where we see breast cancer that’s a very strong blocking effect in that point and that part of the body also in this cns like clomiphene you also see the blocking of a hypothalamus and you see a reflex increase in fsh and lh again like clomiphene but definitely not as strong in this
Effect as clomiphene as far as pro atherogenic effects in the body we know medically and classically for decades it is going to have positive effects estrogenic like in the liver and it’s very interesting that and i’ll discuss later the effects on cholesterol and classically the hdl also in the liver and throughout the body it’s thought that this drug is a pro
Estrogen can be hyper coagulating to dvts pulmonary embolisms and strokes this is very interesting and needs to be paid attention to also as a pro estrogen is in the bones and there are other and more specific classes of sims that are used for postmenopausal women classically that have osteopenia and osteoporosis or they want prevention medical uses for tamoxifen
As per the fda hormone receptor-positive breast cancer it’s interesting that this was the first drug that was used and then a decade or so later came anastrozole of romanist inhibitors and there’s been substantial reports and studies showing that for most women anastrozole aroma nice inhibition is actually better and more protective for treating breast cancer but
This is still a patient per patient decision how to use tamoxifen versus aromatase inhibitors for a woman or rarely man with breast cancer the fda as i stated prior is also given this medical medication tamoxifen a clearance for prevention of potential breast cancer in a person that has high risk now off-label use of this drug by the fda and doctors do use it for
Decades is nostalgia which is actually used more for women than its breast pain so the sensitivity and breast pain now this is where we see it used off-label in the bodybuilding world for gynecomastia because essentially most algea and women is hormone related it’s kind of exacerbated or equal to analog of gynecomastia for men it’s also used off-label for infertility
For women and ovulation cycle issues now it’s amazing that i said initially this was the first indication in the 1960s and then that dropped and it just supplanted where you see it used for breast cancer now how tamoxifen is used by bodybuilders and classically with anabolic steroid using men it’s used for dinoco mastiha now the gynecomastia use for this drug and
It’s amazing that this movies men of learn this just in the streets anecdotally for years it’s used on cycle and it’s used different much differently than a roman ace inhibitors because it’s blocking the receptor cell site it’s not blocking systemic ly the conversion aromatization of antigens to estrogens this is classic it needs to be differentiated so it’s used
And it does work men use this for years when they’re using other types of drugs estrogen ik9 estrogenic steroids they’ll use this for symptoms of gana come ask it not to mention physical lumps which i think is too aggressive and we’ll see why so it is sustainable but the problem becomes that the untoward side-effects and the use of all the other polypharmacy you
Don’t see bodybuilders and men using this in the steroid community for too long they they just don’t stay on it very much too long unlike a roman ace inhibitors also classically used in the underground anecdotally the most classic is post psychotherapy this is the classic use with the dual serves which is used with clomiphene and mr of tamoxifen and human chorionic
Gonadotropin now it’s interesting in the classic regimen this anti estrogen is the longest used you’ll see clomiphene is on board you’ll see hcg is on board but it’s classic that as those are used initially to jumpstart and to bring back that hypothalamus pituitary gonad access failure really heating the testicles and tickling the brain to increase the endogenous
Fsh and lh and to bring back the testicles this is used now over time there’s a stop down approach and it’s been classically thought that tamoxifen stays on board long or up to 45 days because it’s a softer agent versus calm athene and i actually agree with that and it’s interesting that you’ll see in my rationale for use that this drug can be used with other drugs
For pct again medically legitimate pct and or as a sole agent side effects of tamoxifen most importantly and this comes from the fda i’ll compare and contrast the fda says severe side effects of this drug are strokes dvts and palmer yeah basel that’s a hyper collateral statement developing clots classically in the lower limbs that can go up into the lungs it’s
Called a pulmonary embolism it could be very deadly visual disturbances and retinal thrombosis interesting that we see this also potentially with clomiphene leg cramps and we see abnormalities on labs lfts triglyceride elevations and abnormal cbc’s which will be class li the white blood cells and platelets also they say malaise and fatigue biologists which is a
Keenest of the body bone pain depression anxiety and headaches now the side effects that i see contrasting or comparing is from men from the streets from from anecdotal men that are using these drugs with multiple other drugs there’s so much polypharmacy going on i see classically i’ve seen dbt s and pulmonary embolisms now you have to understand that there’s so
Much going on medically with each men that if he has a hypercoagulable family history himself or he doesn’t know but he’s hyper coag’s and he’s on other steroids which steroids themselves can lead to hypercoagulable states and then you start adding in other drugs like this drug you’ll see dvts classically i’ve seen many many dbt s and when i take a good history
I turn out to find that i can’t always determine was it exactly after tamoxifen was on or was it related to another drug but we have to bring attention to this because i think it is true this drug definitely can perturb a man the type of clogged bowl and lead to dvts and worse strokes and pulmonary embolisms i definitely see my allergies and cramps cramps and
Muscle cramps in the lower legs and the calves classically and men tell me directly after using this drug for a period of time and then the cns effects and and these are general depression anxiety and other issues of malaise now these are just cns effects and again it’s hard to tease out from the polypharmacy from the other drugs but i think it really does affect
And it’s going to have effects because it’s modulating astra j’en it’s modulating differently across the board and different systems in the body now my use when i use this drug appropriately for limited period in time i see myalgias some cramps and i see cns effects as i said some depression some worsening of anxiety i have fortunately never seen dvts strokes
Or public embolisms and i think in part i’ve been lucky but i also think mainly it’s because i use it for a very short time period for the men and i watch them very closely now side effects continued we have to discuss the amazing clinical effect in the streets and anecdotes that tamoxifen is safe for alternative and as an anti estrogen than a roman ace hitters
As far as hdl cholesterol now first off i think it’s true there’s no studies on this but i think it’s true it’s softer on the hdl but of course there’s polypharmacy men are on steroids testosterone even is going to lower men as hdl and a man that has a family history for coronary disease he’s maybe had coronary artery disease you have to be very careful with all
These drugs together but i think it is true it’s a softer alternative because it definitely does not destroy the hdl panel as much as a roman ace inhibitors but it definitely we need to study this and for today it has to be of concern rationale for use and how this drug can be used with men that are using anabolic steroids is number one gynecomastia okay that can
Be used on men that are on trt and even suffering with steroids the effects of this drug do block the initial phases of gynecomastia before there is a physical lump and it’s just sensational gynecomastia that men on trt coming laufe steroids or just an organic man on trt can use this drug for a limited time period very limited time period because if you do it for
A week or two maybe up to two weeks you’ll see that it does block those effects and then to restart it’s a restart and that he goes he stays on his trt and the sensational gynecomastia goes away again you have to be very very careful for not doing too many rounds of this because of a side effects and at a certain point if he has got a calm as to you more physical
Gynecomastia you have to refer him for a plastic surgeons evaluation you have to be careful with these men you can never give this drug to a man who has a hyper coagulate with a past history of dvt pulmonary embolism embolism or a stroke or if he has a heavy family history of these things please you cannot use this drug i would not use it and it is interesting
That this again has to be differentiated that it’s not a systemic or romanized inhibitor you’re not going to block a roma tis a ssin with this drug systemically so please don’t stay on this drug too long it’s not used it should not be used for that reason and that’s where the side effects will come while a man’s on this you should be monitored physically and also
Cbc and a comprehensive metabolic panel should be monitored also a lipid panel continuation for rationale for use this is classically used appropriately with many physicians have supported this in evidence-based documents for pct pulse psychotherapy classically used to get men off steroids classically used with a dual selective estrogen receptor modulator regimen
As it’s used with clomiphene we add it to human chorionic gonadotropin they definitely can work i’ve done this for hundreds if not thousands of men to safely and effectively care for them as we wean them off and bring back their brain to testicles and wellness and see how they feel it does work doctors you should look at the data and you should do this or refer
Them to an expert that knows how to do this confidently don’t just tell a man on steroids to leave the office and get off anabolic steroids please don’t do this it’s very dangerous it’s interesting that in pct it can be used as that agent that’s used with other drugs it can also you be used alone we found out that men that have been prior exposed in their central
Nervous systems to steroids they don’t do well in the post period just on clomiphene depression can rule it can happen and it can be quite pronounced this drug i found men can do better by itself as they may have anna boch stammering disciple going at ism and they don’t want to be put on esters of testosterone they want to give themselves a chance to see if they
Recover this drug again monitored closely a man can do well versus clomiphene they can live on this for a while they can do rounds of this on and off very closely monitored because it does increase endogenous antigens on a man but it’s not as strong as clomiphene again these drugs that i’m discussing this is all anecdotal although there are some research studies
That are coming up and i commend those physicians these drugs are very powerful and they’re quite old and we know they have side effects these are complicated drugs you need to use these under a physician’s supervision and to be monitored i hope this helps thank you so much thomas o’connor here i’m glad you made to the end of the video if you liked it hit the like
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Transcribed from video
Anti-Estrogens in Bodybuilding Pt. 3 – Tamoxifen – Doctor's Analysis of Side Effects & Properties By Anabolic Doc
